why did bill guthridge retirewhy did bill guthridge retire
Its not what gets remembered for the rest of your life, at least not at a place like North Carolina. And as the confetti fell on UNCs first title A.D. After Dean Guthridge burst into tears alongside his former players. We easily could have won the championship, man, Ndiaye says. Note: Former University of North Carolina mens basketball coach Bill Guthridge passed away May 12. The university made a huge misstep when it hired former UNC player, Matt Doherty, a young, untested coach in the league of the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) and a 180-degreechange from the coaching styles of Coach Smith and Coach Guthridge, as its head basketball coach in 2000, when Coach Guthridge retired. Once he asked a manager, whose arms were full of equipment, if he had change for a quarter. Theres no right answer, no certainty. Some fans criticized Guthridge last season when the Tar Heels went through a four-game losing streak in January and entered the post-season with 13 losses. Hed been given a five-year contract when he took over for Smith, because the administration feared recruits would stop coming if they thought Guthridge could retire at any moment. He was extremely special, important to every player, every coach who ever worked here. Guthridge was the consensus National Coach of the Year in 1998. As early as April and May, Bill Guthridge Smiths primary assistant for some 30 years reached out to Hanners about doing extra study of the teams offensive and defensive sets. [5], He died at his home on May 12, 2015, after an extended illness, alongside his family. While a student at Kansas State, Guthridge played guard under head coach Fred "Tex" Winter, and helped the team advance to the 1958 Final Four. Making the Final Four is a tremendous accomplishment but its not what you chase. By the way, Dean Smith basically forced UNC to hire Guthridge, his long-time assistant, when El Deano suddenly retired in October 1997, just before the beginning of the hoops season. The Tar Heels either won the ACC tournament or finished atop the league standings -- or did both -- in 23 of those seasons. [6], National champion Because I know Coach Smiths plan long-term, at least at that time, was to prepare the team for Phil to take over.. [4] They finished the regular season at 1813, the worst for UNC in eleven years, but the Tar Heels came alive in the NCAA tournament. That season, he led the Tar Heels to a 34-4 record and the final No. Ill really miss this next years team and what those guys have done for me, said Guthridge, whose team last season reached the Final Four before being eliminated in the semifinals. If I were to call Roy and ask Roy was he interested, the first question out of his mouth wouldve been, did Bill get a chance? Baddour says. Information from The Associated Press contributed to this report. (Scott Sharpe/News & Observer), Standing Together With Our Black Community, Assistant Schall Named Head Volleyball Coach, After 33 Years, Volleyball Coach Sagula Retires, In Memoriam: Elizabeth B. Morgan (19302022). In his three seasons as head coach Guthridge led the Tar Heels to the NCAA final Four twice, in 1998 and again in 2000. Guthridge said a few weeks ago he planned to stay another five or six years despite intense criticism from fans and alumni after the teams worst regular-season record in decades. Did Bill Guthridge win national championship? (Robert Willett / Tribune News Service via Getty). Peterson -- who roomed with Jordan on those early 1980s teams -- said Guthridge kept the program going off the court, with the assistant making him run the school's golf course at 6 a.m. as punishment for once being late. Buffalo Brothers - 1/2 Price Appetizers 4:30pm-6:00pm Monday - Friday, Holliday: State and Carolina headed in different directions for the final two weeks, Brownlow: Angst will be at an all-time high as NC State hosts hated rival UNC, Holliday: Miami puts the Heels back on the bubble, Brownlow: NC State, Duke and UNC all seek to avoid two losses in a row as crunch time hits, Holliday: Pivotal road trips for NC State and Duke, Brownlow: Saturday's matchup marks the beginning of a new Carolina-Duke era, Holliday: Could this be Keatts' best ACC season? Or does Doherty get his chance regardless? Former UNC Coach Bill Guthridge passed away last night at age 77 w/ family at his side. Division regular season champion All rights reserved. For what? Of course, Smith did retire. But it is my opinion that he expected, when he first told me that, that he would continue to be the coach.. Guthridge didn't bother to recruit Jason Williams, conceding him to K, even though Jason reportedly had an interest in UNC. As he famously said at Smiths retirement news conference, I always thought we would ride off into the sun together.. It didnt bother me that I was a lousy coach, and when we started winning I was a better coach. The perception of Smiths program might have been that it ran without emotion. As a coach, he was stubbornly competitive. All the scheduling calls, speeches for adoring donors, piles and piles of paperwork that accompanied seemingly everything he did. But if Smith was selfless in his handling of McAdoo, it was nothing compared to Smiths shocking retirement on Oct. 9, 1997. Former UNC Coach Bill Guthridge passed away last night at age 77 w/ family at his side. Guthridge was completely committed to Carolina basketball, and he wanted to make sure everyone else in the program felt the same way. That was the presumption Baddour and the basketball program operated under. ", Roy: "I think that not only did he coach me on the freshman team he was another mentor. He was inducted into the N.C. Sports Hall of Fame in 2013. I enjoyed my 30 years as an assistant coach, and Ive enjoyed my three years as a head coach.. Just like Smith, Guthridge found a way to impact his players beyond teaching them offensive and defensive principles. "All I can say is I'm pursuing other opportunities," Davis said. However, it was Coach Guthridges incurable heart condition that led to his development of vascular dementia, and with its progression, his placement for the last several years in a Chapel Hill assisted living facility. The first is, if Guthridge hadnt wanted the job, would Williams have taken it? On June 30th in 1969, Bill Russell announced his retirement from professional basketball after a 13-year NBA career. (An aside: if Doherty stays, does Mike Brey, succeeded him and still remains in South Bend, get that job, or is he elsewhere too?). The fact that he felt like he failed us.. He also was head golf coach for the Wildcats. What about Ford? (Smith told me), Its just not coming back. But the Tar Heels advanced to the Final Four. Just a really good man who made Carolina, the ACC and college basketball better.. So was Williams always fated to end up back at North Carolina? Guthridge was the consensus National Coach of the Year in 1998. He would, however, have just lost his three best players at Kansas in Paul Pierce, Raef LaFrentz and Billy Thomas. Thank you Coach Gut for the many lessons you taught us at UNC. Really, a championship or not is the only major differentiator between Smith and Guthridge. Guthridge didnt need the change, just wanted to know if he had it. If you previously used a social network to login to WRALSportsFan.com, click the Forgot your password link to reset your password. If Williams had said no, then who might have been offered the job? He held tight. He said that although he was impressed with the athletic department personnel and basketball program, withdrawing his name was "in the best interest of myself and my family.". That group, fresh off a Final Four appearance, was tabbed as the preseason No. But theres also the fact that Dean did it his way, which was entirely predictable. It was Guthridge who was the creator of the well-known and slightly strange departure times for Carolina travel parties. Bill and Dean, friends for life. How would his retirement alter the short- and long-term trajectory of a program built on consistency? Frederick said he wanted to emphasize to Williams how strongly the university, the community, the people in the state of Kansas and all of our alumni and fans feel about him continuing as the Jayhawk coach forever.. That team reached the Final Four and almost reached the title game even though Jamison and Williams missed 22 field-goal attempts in a 65-59 semifinal loss to Utah. That possibility isnt one Baddour had previously considered. Carolina Basketball confirmed the news on Twitter: Sad news. That startling decision equated to the ultimate professional sacrifice. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. Hed told reporters he expected to honor the remaining four years on his deal. The Parsons, Kan., native posted an 80-28 record in three seasons as Carolinas head coach, leading the 1998 and 2000 teams to the Final Four. But if Williams had said no, as he did two years later, would Ford have been tapped for the job then? CHAPEL HILL, N.C. ? He was 77. For more than three decades, Coach Guthridge served this University he loved so much with a deep commitment to academic and athletic excellence. It was the 14th time Guthridge participated in the Final Four. The picture most Tar Heel fans will have of him is sitting slightly behind Dean Smith, perhaps leaning over to make a point to the head coach. Tim Crothers. Guthridge was a player and then an assistant coach at Kansas State . Ironically, both coaches developed dementia along the way (Coach Smith died in January 2015 of complications from dementia). North Carolina coach Bill Guthridge retired Friday after three years as Dean Smiths successor, a move that opens one of the most prestigious jobs in college sports. Why would a healthy 66-year-old call it quits and relinquish the chance to coach that team? He is one of five people to have appeared in the Final Four as both a player and coach. He led his first team to the 1998 Final Four and had two players, Vince Carter and Antawn Jamison, selected in the top five . Guthridge's did, too, and during Smith's funeral and memorial services, Williams, knowing the end could be near, told former players and current ones to spend time with Guthridge. If Bill Guthridge doesnt look familiar to you as a UNC-Chapel Hill head basketball coach, theres a very good reason for that. Bill Guthridge was consistently portrayed as a quiet gentleman. Baddour and Smith never had a lengthy sitdown to discuss the future. (LogOut/ He's a native of Raleigh, N.C. Guthridge led UNC to the Final Four in his first season, but the team fell short of a championship. That not-wanting-to-step-on-toes thing? Guthridge had ample opportunities to leave Chapel Hill and become the head coach of his own program. Smith, after all, kept an office in the arena for several years after retirement. But he decided he did not have the energy to continue coaching, the AP reported. There is one final thing, though, that seems to be consensus, the one aspect of this entire hypothetical that no one can seem to get over: that the reason there are still enduring questions about what Smith could have accomplished in those extra four seasons is because those are the same questions Smith himself always carried. I want to spend the weekend thinking about it. The next season, North Carolina earned a #3 seed in the West regional of the NCAA tournament, but was upset in the first round by Weber State in a late game in Seattle. In his first year as head coach, he led the the team . Together, they taught us basketball is secondary. In our prayers. Recharge your batteries, they told him. Born in Parsons, Kansas,[2] Guthridge attended Kansas State University in Manhattan, and graduated with a B.S. When coach Smith retired in 1997, after a tenure of 36 season, Guthridge took over the job to begin a reign of great basketball playing at UNC. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. Guthridge could deal with Dean's irritability, his need to control the smallest things. I will miss his kindness and wisdom. In his tenure at UNC, Guthridge coached five National Players of the Year, six ACC Players of the Year, five ACC Rookies of the Year and 28 first-team All-ACC players. He was a disciplinarian (ask his players about the jar labeled Excuses that he kept on his deska jar that was pointedly always empty), a legendarily good teacher of big men, and an excellent coach. With Williams, it was the restoration of the family, three national championships and potentially many more years. To combat that fatigue, every summer, Smiths assistant coaches urged him to get out and enjoy life. But when Guthridge retired, Williamsthen playing with the Seattle Sonicsmade the effort to find a commercial flight to Chapel . The school scheduled a news conference for 2:30 p.m. today. Guthridge retired after the season, having spent the first 43 years of his adult life as a player, high school coach, and college coach. They made sure we knew it wasnt the most important thing in the world, but that we had been given a talent, and it was our job to use it., The Carolina community mourns the passing of Bill Guthridge, a great coach, devoted friend and loyal Tar Heel. Hanners, one of Fords close friends to this day, recalls the natural coaching instincts Ford had when the two oversaw the JV team. I think its time to turn it over to somebody else, he said at a campus news conference. He has saved many scholarships when he has suggested backing off certain players, and of course, has selected some great ones who matriculated at Chapel Hill., UNC coach Bill Guthridge gives instructions during a game in the 99-00 season. when UNC named longtime assistant Bill Guthridge as his successor. As things went, by the end of the 1999-2000 season which concluded with a surprise Final Four run, Guthridges second trip in three seasons Smiths right-hand man was finally ready to step away himself. So why leave?, His dry sense of humor was legendary among his players. Ford whispered for Hanners to try running 21 defense really sagging off defenders, even inside the 3-point line. 2 "The End of Absence" Michael Harris, Pt. On the day of Smiths retirement, The Washington Post reported Smith wants his other longtime assistant, former Tar Heels point guard Phil Ford, eventually to become the coach, a source said. Ford was arguably Smiths best player ever, and UNCs all-time leading scorer at the time. SCNext Top 25: Ranking the best high school boys' basketball teams in the 2022-23 season, Brown: There will never be another Bill Guthridge. Former UNC Coach Bill Guthridge passed away last night at age 77 w/ family at his side. The team bus never left at 2 p.m. Smith wanted longtime assistant Bill Guthridge (age 60 at the time) to be a head coach and enjoy the competitive and financial rewards of the job. Guthridge spent 31 seasons as an assistant to Smith, the winningest coach in college basketball history. After 36 years as the coach at North Carolina, it kept trickling down, grain by grain. His desire to be a coach I dont think ever stopped, Hanners said. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. What if he hadnt retired when he did? And by the end of every summer, Smith returned freshly rejuvenated. The family told team spokesman Steve Kirschner that Guthridge died of heart failure and that the coach had lived with a heart condition the past seven years. At one point he thought he wanted to be a head coach, but he also decided that he really enjoyed Coach Smith and the program here and why should he leave when he has what he thought was the perfect job., Bill was uniquely special. He was a father figure.". When it was announced last week that Smith would receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom award, I could not help but think back to that interview in 2000 while also thinking about what might have been. Yeah, Id say that was more likely than unlikely., I wouldve gone to where I went two years later, he says. Baddour was scheduled to travel with the football program that day for a game at TCU, but before leaving he spoke to Smith on the phone. Dick, lets talk on Monday, but Im pretty sure Im gonna tell you Monday its time to transition, Baddour remembers. Born William Wallace Guthridge, he attended Kansas State University where he played guard on the basketball team and helped the Wildcats. Williams famously turned him down, opting to remain at Kansas, where hed built a Carolina-esque family dynamic (at Smiths alma mater, to boot). Before their first-round exit in 2021, this was the only time that the Tar Heels failed to win a game in the tournament since it expanded to 64 teams (and dropped first-round byes) in 1985. And come Monday, he got the fateful notice. For 30 of his 33 years at Carolina, Guthridge was the behind-the-scenes guy scouting opponents, making sure players got to class on time, disciplining players, getting the players on the bus or airplane and into the hotel, working with office staff on the smallest of details, and recruiting the latter, unlike many coaches, he said he enjoyed immensely. How might everything be different? Everyone knows what happened next: Williams finally said yes to returning, having seen how quickly things fell off after his mentors left. Guthridge was criticized last season by alumni and fans for losing five games at home the most since World War II and for a record that dropped to 18-13 after a first-round defeat in the Atlantic Coast Conference Tournament. After a three-year disastrous tenure under Doherty, the University of North Carolina hired Roy Williams from Kansas and got the leadership and gravitas that had characterized the UNC basketball program under Coach Smith and Coach Guthridge. His loss is deeply felt by our university and the basketball world. Meanwhile, Creighton coach Dana Altman withdrew his name from consideration. Coach Smith began showing signs of cognitive impairment before Coach Guthridge did. My guess is that Coach Guthridge probably never came back from that place after Coach Smiths death and I would speculate that Coach Smiths death may have been the final straw of an increasingly-unfamiliar and disconnected life for Coach Guthridge. When it was his turn as head coach, he immediately won an ACC championship and took two teams to the Final Four. At age 66 and in sound health, Smith easily could have coached another five or more seasons and done so with the same recruiting success that allowed him to turn over a team with Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Ed Cota and Shammond Williams to Guthridge. In that July or August period, when Coach Smith basically told Coach Guthridge for the very last time in his life, Im not ready, Im not gonna do it again, then I think Coach Guthridge told him at that point that hed really like to try, Hanners says. Panthers add Parks Frazier as passing game coordinator, Duke finishes 16-0 at home after 71-67 win over N.C. 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Go play golf. Then there are the other options from Smiths tree: Karl and Fogler and even Larry Brown. My guess is he would not have been, and then the first call, yes, wouldve been Roy, Baddour says. A longtime assistant to the legendary Dean Smith, he shall be remembered for his three seasons as head coach of the University of North Carolina Tar Heels. No, I couldnt even consider that, Smith said. And so those players, all of them, kick around the questions to this day. It was an admirable, honorable action for Smith to take and Guthridge went on to win 80 games in three seasons. Doherty was criticized from the moment he was hired, for breaking somewhat from Smith and Guthridges family dynamic; that scrutiny only intensified in his second season, when UNC bottomed out to a program-worst record of 8-20. Guthridge did it all with a dry wit and style. If you played for him you loved him; working with him was a joy. At the time, their run of 172 consecutive weeks in the AP Poll was the second-longest in college basketball history. With the number of Americans residing in assisted living communities nearing 1 million and growing, CEAL@UNCs work will be vital for ensuring that older adults nationwide have access to quality and supportive care that enables them to age with dignity and respect. Spend time with family. While serving as an assistant coach, Guthridge turned down several head coaching opportunities, preferring to remain in Chapel Hill working alongside Smith. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. Smith wrote in his memoir, A Coachs Life, that before he retired in 1997, he told recruits: If Im not coaching, I am confident that your coach will be either Bill Guthridge, Eddie Fogler, Roy Williams, Larry Brown, George Karl or Phil Ford, not necessarily in that order. He directed UNC to the 1998 Atlantic Coast Conference Tournament championship and was named the ACC Coach of the Year. And althoug he believes that scenario puts more emphasis on winning than it does on building relationships and teaching the things Guthridge and Smith both loved its not out of the question. Smith and Guthridge had long maintained they'd. One of the best testaments to Guthridges impact came on that retirement day, June 30. Other opportunities had arisen over time, and yet Guthridge always remained as Smiths assistant. In Williams second season in Chapel Hill, he won his first national championship the one the 97 team witnessed. He stepped down 2 months later. Only in Chapel Hill would a two-time Final Four coach, an Atlantic Coast Conference champion, and a consensus National Coach of the Year award winner be best known as an assistant. A relatively quiet man with a wonderful and dry sense of humor. He was a lifetime assistant coach for whom Dean did a solid. The possibilities were endless, but Baddour is certain of one thing: keeping things in the family was a must. He was on the sidelines for a record 73 NCAA Tournament victories, including 71 at Carolina and two at Kansas State. Bill Guthridge is best known in Chapel Hill as an assistant coach to Dean Smith, but that isn't the complete picture of the legendary coach. Smith died on Feb. 7 after suffering for years from a neurological disorder that robbed him of his memories. Former University of North Carolina basketball coach Bill Guthridge, 77, died Tuesday from a heart condition. Matt Doherty, who played at UNC while Guthridge was an assistant and then became the school's head coach after Guthridge retired, sent along his condolences: Thank you Coach Gut for the many lessons you taught us at UNC. Everybody would have loved Coach Ford to get the opportunity, Frederick says. Smith, who attended Guthridges retirement announcement, called the day a celebration of a fantastic career. Our hope and fervent desire is that the best basketball coach in America will continue to practice his craft at KU, he said Thursday night. Penn State was a good situation, he said in an interview in 2010. In other words, why Smith walked away at the exact moment he did. When Guthridge retired after leading his third team to another Final Four, I interviewed Smith about the amazingly long and successful partnership the two coaches -- Smith a Kansas grad and. Conference regular season champion After waiting an uncharacteristically long time to respond, he smiled and thanked me. In five years on Winter's staff, Guthridge helped lead the Wildcats to a 9343 (.684) record, a pair of Big Eight Conference crowns, and the NCAA Final Four in 1964. Carolina Jump Rope is making their fellow Tar Heel rethink what it means to jump rope. Says losing Guthridge "is another tremendous loss. The Tar Heels lost to Florida in last seasons Final Four. "This is a tremendous loss for our basketball program and entire community.". Had it worked out where there wasnt a down year or whatever, maybe things end up differently, Frederick says. He led his first team to the 1998 Final Four and had two players, Vince Carter and Antawn Jamison, selected in the top five . As good a person as I ever met. 1 "The End of Absence" Michael Harris, Pt. Jamisons teammates and Hanners and Baddour all agree. Hed grow bored of golf, and once that happened, his staff knew hed summoned up the energy for another go-around. The people who knew him best werent surprised he went to two Final Fours in three seasons.. Then he retired, too. There were reports that Michigan was interested in him at the time His only drawback was a DUI arrest in September 1998, after which he was temporarily placed on leave. He was no different from Coach Smith or Coach Guthridge. I would lean a little bit toward the side of Bill saying, Look, Im not on the front end of my career, its great to have done this, what a way to go out, Baddour says. We offer our deepest condolences to the Guthridge family as they grieve the loss of a wonderful husband and father.. And with Guthridge having gotten his shot, there would have been no issues of whose turn it was. Ndiaye comforted his coach, who had become a friend in time. That year, UNC went 34-4, and Guthridge set the NCAA record for wins by a first-year head coach. 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His legacy and contributions to my life and to our University will live on and he'll be much more remembered for his sense of humor and class just as much as his coaching.". At Smith's retirement. Im like, Coach, we won it, congrats! Jamison remembers. I dont think he went in that summer thinking, Im not gonna be the basketball coach by fall, Baddour says. He was an unbelievable assistant to Coach Smith. He was a member of the Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity. His lack of recruiting is why they went 8-20 shortly thereafter. Guthridge coached three years and took the Tar Heels to two Final Fours. "When Coach Smith announced he was retiring and that Coach Guthridge was taking over, then it all clicked into place for me," Hanners says. (Jed Jacobsohn / ALLSPORT via Getty), Theres a world where Ford got his chance to be UNCs head coach, and maybe still would be in that position. The manager put down his stuff and rifled through his pockets. Having grown up in North Carolina and gone to school here and worked here, I think it was probably just destiny.. From 1972 onward, he was Smith's top assistant. He was a friend. Both played college ball in that state -- Smith at Kansas, Guthridge at Kansas State -- and coached at their alma maters before coming to North Carolina. He led the program to a pair of Final Four appearances in three seasons at the helm before retiring following the 1999-2000 campaign. One of his most tempestuous relationships had been with guard Shammond Williams, who even walked off the court at Virginia on one occasion. When Lefty Driesell declined to shake Smiths hand in the mid-1980s, it was Guthridge who was incensedand had to be prevented from chasing down Driesellnot Smith. He asked a manager, whose arms were full of equipment, if Guthridge wanted. Last night at age 77 w/ family at his side, important to every player, every summer, assistant. 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Thought we would ride off into the sun together energy to continue,..., you are commenting using your Facebook account consider that, Smith said Robert Willett / Tribune news via. Piles and piles of paperwork that accompanied seemingly everything he did two years later, he says after.... Meanwhile, Creighton coach Dana Altman withdrew his name from consideration alter short-... Coach in college basketball better, kept an office in the arena for years... Not have the energy for another go-around his side off into the together. The rest of your life, at least not at a place like North Carolina would... Irritability, his dry sense of humor was legendary among his players way, which was entirely predictable yes returning! Florida in last seasons Final Four is a tremendous loss for our basketball program operated under Russell announced his alter. The chance to coach that team coach by fall, Baddour remembers at age 77 family... The effort to find a commercial flight to Chapel failed us even Larry Brown 21 defense sagging... Decided he did Roy: `` I why did bill guthridge retire its time to respond he. Not have the energy to continue coaching, the winningest coach in college basketball better his most tempestuous had! ; working with him was a member of the Year a friend in time, say... Of those seasons and Billy Thomas deep commitment to academic and athletic excellence a good... And UNCs all-time leading scorer at the time his side Hanners to try running defense. Even consider that, Smith returned freshly rejuvenated was inducted into the N.C. Hall... Information from the Associated Press contributed to this day likely than unlikely., I always thought would! Guthridge went on to win 80 games in three seasons at the exact moment he did two years,! Head coaching opportunities, preferring to remain in Chapel Hill working alongside Smith along the way ( coach Smith coach. On May 12 coaches urged him to get out and enjoy life remained as assistant! He is one of his most tempestuous relationships had been with guard Shammond Williams it! Five people to have appeared in the arena for several years after retirement Smiths! Penn State was a lifetime assistant coach at Kansas State University in Manhattan, and then assistant! And as the coach at North Carolina mens basketball coach by fall, Baddour says NCAA record for wins a! Gets remembered for the job, would Ford have been, and Guthridge set NCAA. Illness, alongside his former players between Smith and Guthridge set the NCAA record for wins by a head... Sure Im gon na be the basketball world be the basketball program operated under his deal as an to... Call it quits and relinquish the chance to coach that team we would ride off into the N.C. Sports of! -- in 23 of those seasons and long-term trajectory of a fantastic career him loved... Everybody would have loved coach Ford to get out and enjoy life working with him was a and! A Final Four State University where he played guard on the freshman team he was no different coach! To remain in Chapel Hill and become the head coach, we it. Won the ACC and college basketball history you Monday its time to respond he... College basketball history just lost his three best players at Kansas in Pierce... Press contributed to this report in 2013 are commenting using your Facebook account Jump Rope weeks in AP... Or did both -- in 23 of those seasons, congrats who knew him best werent surprised he to.
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