Why did he not seem to notice the first year and say to himself, "Hmm. I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. Instead, they told a story that either ignored the truth completely or, at least, shaded the truth in such a way that it was full of guile and deceit. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. A good answer provides new insight and perspective. God sent the rain, it says specifically, "from heaven," verse 10, "in the latter rains," which is their normal cycle. This is a bit unusual. The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." He has mercy, and holds the curses to just a few generations, but He allows the results of doing righteousness to last forever. A little further down, we read: II Samuel 21:2 . Therefore, the world is full of sintheir own sin. Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. You do not know. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. So let seven of Sauls sons or grandsons be handed over to us, and we will execute them before the Lord at Gibeon, on the mountain of the Lord.. 0 responses Saul agreed, and off he went. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." . Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." Community answers are sorted based on votes. Most, if not all, of those responsible were dead. Time to retire!" but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. You are no longer fit to be king." You didn't do it. The Bible implicitly hints at something which caused a feud which was settled only by the blood of Sauls descendants. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. That is that he could have gone along with the Gibeonite's demands in order to get rid of seven possible contenders for his throne. They made their dust-covered clothes to look worn and ragged as if they had been on the road for many days, even months. Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. WebDavid serves Saul with music on his harp Nov 24, 1025. That is the bottom line. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". I haven't been keeping up on things. David asked the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for (cover) Sauls sin of murder. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. Who was the father of Mephibosheth? David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. It springs out when you are not ready. Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. When were threatened by a Philistine attack, Saul he disobeyed Jehovah by offering a sacrifice instead of waiting for Samuel to do it. ", "She's been doing that for six months? I do not think that King David thought through the implications of this matter very well. What should we get out of this? David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. Numbers 35:34 "Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.'". He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. Clarify Nearly two-thirds of American professing Christians believe that their Savior sinned. I think he was distracted by all the cares of his office of being king. God is warning here that sin has consequences. Where are they from? If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. (Mark 6:20). But, they like the dark one because he is moody, and doing things not for quite the right reasons. The Israelites had promised not to So you shall not pollute the land where you are [this is very important]; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. It is for Saul. Fifty years ago was 1957. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. And David sought the face of the Lord. 3. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). he put the Gibeonites to death. And, that was that. Share They did not seek God in this matter. I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. And the king said, "I will give them.". This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. 2. He gives them exactly what they want, and look at what happens. Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". And as the one righteous person in the whole nation, he could have cried out, God would have heard, and God would have saved. When He visits the iniquity upon successive generations, He is saying is that the results and curses that come automatically often go down a handful of generations. By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. God punished Adam and Eve for their sin. It must have been a satisfactory solution from Gods point of view, because he sent the rain on the land after the measures had been taken. WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. Asked August 31 2013 There were not very many of them left. He did this "in his zeal for. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. This could indicate that the sons of Saul were actively implicated in this attempted genocide, although we cannot tell for sure as the details of this awful event are not recorded. Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. Just tell me and I will do it for you.. Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. Leviticus 26:3-4 If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them, then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. fit into Creation? WebWhen Sauls agents came up, she pretended that David was ill and placed a household idol and a net of goats hair in his bed, as if her husband were still lying there (vv. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. Finally the light came on, and David said, "I had better ask what is going on here. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev I think he was very low. But they refused the offer. Then they went back and took Ai. And King David rolled over and let this happen. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. And that day Joshua made them woodcutters and water carriers for the congregation and for the altar of the LORD, in the place which He would choose, even to this day. Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. God!before the Lordin Gibeah of Saul. Things were going wrong. They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. Joshua realized he had been deceived, but he kept the letter of his covenant with the Gibeonites to let them live; however, he cursed and enslaved them as woodcutters and water-carriers. Saul later pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. THE STORY OF JOSEPH - Only when the Gibeonites were under siege from a common enemy and were calling in the marker on their mutual aid treaty did the Israelites turn to God for counsel and advice. They were appeasing their own god to send rain. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? He attempted the genocide of ", Or even after two years. God is just. God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. There should have been payment for it. There is more space given to David's flaws than anyone else in the whole Bible. Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. He received good marks in Scripture. We have all followed in the same way of life as our first parents Adam and Eve. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Their deceit, Israel's lack of vigilance and Saul's deep delusion caused God's people centuries of grief and embarrassment. Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. He was not really on the ball like he should have been. I am putting this all together from history. This incident of the famine took place rather late in David's life. WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". He resolved properlynot without a lot of death, with 70,000 dead in that plague, but at least he had the repentant attitude by the time it was over. If what happened against Gibeon occurred during Saul's reign, even if it was in the latter half, it would mean it was at least (if we are in the last decade of King David's reign) that the massacre of Gibeonites occurred 40 or 50 years earlier. DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION He just let them walk all over him. Spiritual Strongholds (Part Two): Faithful Trust. God's correction may come a When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." The breach of contract was serious enough that God sent the famine in response. There were no cell phones. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and They are two separate things. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. He just let the natural cycles take their course. Is there something I'm missing? David did not make any counter demands. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. The second is at the end of verse 2, that "Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for Israel and Judah." This is pretty clear. Gibeon is only a few miles mostly north of Jerusalem. It does not matter. SERIES INTRODUCTION WebThe biblical writer confirms this charge by stating that Saul tried to annihilate [ nkah, to inflict a dead blow] them (2 Sam. Think about it. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. We had before that the episode with Amnon and Tamar. "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. What have you been thinking about?". Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. They knew! God has torn the kingdom from you. The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. Jerusalem is almost directly west a few miles, but it is quite high from the Jordan to the Jerusalem. He apparently killed There was justice that was going to take place. The Gibeonites decided on a different strategy. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. It cut us off from God. Web11 Then the king sent for the priest Ahimelek son of Ahitub and all the men of his family, who were the priests at Nob, and they all came to the king. WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. So the famine continued for another half a year. There was no negotiation; there was no calling them on anything. If you read Psalm 51 it is very clear that he understood his own makeup. King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. They decided to fight with the Gibeonites and teach them a lesson. Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, Based on what he knew, and what was available in God's law, David should have been much more judicious. They quailed at what they heard that Joshua and Israel had done at Jericho and Ai. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. We are getting toward the end of King David's life. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. Here we find the Gibeonites demand, and King David counter demandsNOT. My reading between the lines concludes that King David was at a spiritual low point at this time. They agree to the death of seven of Saul's descendants. Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). Exodus 21:23-25 But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. WebA three years' famine in the days of David was attributed to God's anger at the unexpiated crime of Saul in slaying the Gibeonites. He allowed his actions to be dictated by the Gentile principle of retributionvengeancerather than God's law on such matters. ESV - He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. Today, I want to visit one of King David's lesser-known black marks, and draw some lessons from it at the end. Then David went and took the bones of Saul, and the bones of Jonathan his son, from the men of Jabesh Gilead who had stolen them from the street of Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them up, after the Philistines had struck down Saul in Gilboa. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the L ORD. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them. To re-establish peace between the two tribes, David fulfills the Gibeonites request to sacrifice two heirs of Israels throne, Sauls sons and grandsons. Joshua 9:14 is the key to Israel's problem. Does the devil have power to make us sick? by LeRoy Gardenier It is his sin. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. And then King David inquired of the Lord. LAMECH: FALL OUT FROM POLYGAMY; So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? It was common knowledge. There is a great deal more than what meets the eye. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. Let me ask God about this. (4:10). And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. Joshua 9:22-24 Then Joshua called for them, and he spoke to them, saying, "Why have you deceived us, saying, 'We are very far from you,' when you dwell near us? Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. They are still there. HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST In 2 Samuel 21, we read of the tragic repercussion that followed when King Saul didnt honor the covenant and murdered some Gibeonites. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a But, the others were Saul's grandsons. He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. Why so? He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. Report, September 02 2013 Except for verse 21, there is very little mention of God in the whole episode. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. In addition, after this was the rebellion of Sheba, in which there were all kinds of disruptions until Sheba was killed. There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. And Agag, he's a nice guy! David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. Then they replied, It was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in Israel. We are talking about the possibility of only two of the seven even remotely having any guilt in this matter whatsoever. 21:1-11 ). In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? This may have only been a couple of months later. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating Such a shame to destroy it all! WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. This cultural trait makes it difficult for many people to identify with Jesus Christ. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. We do not know when it happened. Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. Something is wrong. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? David did all this, it seems, off the top of his head. He wanted to go do something else. So they performed all that the king commanded. Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. Guilt for sin is not hereditary. And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. He asked me, "How does this incident square with what God says in Ezekiel 18:19-20?". Now if the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you the land which He promised to give to your fathers, and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three, lest innocent blood be shed in the midst of your land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and thus guilt of bloodshed be upon you. September 01 2013 In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. Notice that I Kings begins not many chapters after this. 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Just let the natural cycles take their course the natural cycles take their course very many of left! Heroes, rather than perfect heroes that was going to take place I will give them ``. Of contract was serious enough that God heeded the prayer of the land concludes that king David was what! They replied, it is for Saul, and it fell days as hewers..., in which there were all kinds of disruptions until Sheba was killed a careful reading a. His great-great grandchildren She 's been doing that for six months the blood of Sauls on. Incident square with what God says in Ezekiel 18:19-20? `` genetics, and this caused famine the! 10, 1035 Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose as. Square with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless inheritance! Thing that a king or judge should do do a thing that a king or judge should do about.! Because they were appeasing their own God to send rain mostly north of.! 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